From the Jewish Anti-Defamation League:""This film is a perverse attempt to make a case against abortion in America through the cynical abuse of the memory of those killed in the Holocaust," he said. "It is, quite frankly, one of the most offensive and outrageous abuses of the memory of the Holocaust we have seen in years.Not only does the film try to assert a moral equivalency between the Holocaust and abortion, but it also brings Jews and Jewish history into the discussion and then calls on its viewers to repent and accept Jesus as their savior." http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/adl-slams-movie-that-compares-holocaust-to-abortion-1.395124
Do you not see the equivalency? Hitler treated Jews as if they were unworthy of life, just like pro-choice treats unborn babies as if they are unworthy of life.. unless the baby happens to be wanted of course.
Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of a people, and the Holocaust was a transgression against humanity which has never been equaled.Nothing in America can be compared to the Holocaust; not taxes, not the president’s bills — and not abortions.Pro-lifers love to use the Hitler analogy whenever possible because it causes shock value and puts the other side on the defensive. No matter how meaningless the comparison or how stupid it makes them out look. Pro-lifers also use Hitler rhetoric to harass and threaten pro-choicers. For example a postcard received by my friend while studying to become a gyn. The postcard was from Operation Rescue and said something on the lines of: "If you're in an elevator with Hitler, Mussolini and an abortions and you have a gun with only two bullets who do you shoot? The abortionist twice. "How pro-life.
Wrong, moron-the holocaust has been equated many times over http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_historyProchoice uses the same tactics Hitler used: declaring the Jews lesser beings, unworthy of life, a danger (shriek! pregnancy is gonna kill us all!) he truly believed the Jews were 'not really people' (sound familiar?) just as your hero and founder of Planned Parenthood Margaret Sanger believed abortion was necessary to 'weed out the undesirables' and 'kill human weeds' (her words, not mine) interestingly it was your buddy Hitler who introduced legal abortion on demand to Eastern Europe. He was prochoice, just like you. Congrats! Why don't you go read some history and STFU before you say something even more moronic.
Jackie - Is that the reason pro-aborts deny the unborn 'personhood'? Abortion is the extermination of z/e/f's. The unborn ARE in a class (of people) all by themselves, "defenseless".
MoronicProchoiceQuotes : I see you are another prolifer who lacks in an ability to have an honest disagreement without resorting to nasty epithets. A close reading of my statement would indicate that I was not denying genocides pre-or post WWII. Rather what I said was that the holocaust, with its systematic extermination of a group of people, has never been equaled---which is true. As a Jew, I find the comparison offensive. Also, as a Professor of Western History and Women's Studies, I welcome any time or place to debate issues. However, when doing so, immature behavior like calling opponents morons or murderers as well telling people to STFU is frowned upon in the adult world in which this pending debate would take place. The Anti Abortion Gang: How can you give z/e/f's personhood status without denying personhood to the actual human being in which the z/e/f livelihood depends on? The answer is, you cannot. Women would take a second class status once pregnant and I reject that.
Jackie - How about letting me answer, rather that you answering for me?"How can you give z/e/f's personhood status without denying personhood to the actual human being in which the z/e/f livelihood depends on?"What makes you think a woman is denied her personhood because her z/e/f is also considered a person? If the z/e/f had legal personhood, then what you're implying is that every woman would lose her own personhood when she becomes pregnant. By your logic, a woman would not be a person unless she had the legal right to kill the z/e/f, and then only if she exercised that legal right. Since when is the legal right to kill, what makes one a person?
Sooo..the systematic execution of the Jews by the Nazis was NOT ok, but the systematic execution of those waiting to be born IS ok. Thanks for clearing that up, Jackie. I'm sure those who perished in concentration camps would totally agree its ok to kill millions of others based on your perception of them, right?
Hearing a Jew condone abortion is like hearing a black person condone slavery. You, of all people, ought to know better. 1 in 4 human beings conceived in this country is killed by abortion. If that's not genocide, I'd love to hear how you've redefined it, Jackie.
MoronicProchoiceQuotes : In Israel, abortion is legal in limited circumstance (and those circumstances would not be ok with you I'm sure). Why don't you go over to Israel and spew the abortion=the holocaust crap to them and see how that works out.
"Hearing a Jew condone abortion is like hearing a black person condone slavery. "Its interesting that you would bring up slavery. Your side seems to resemble that disgusting time in history. Forcing women to birth children against their will because they are women and had sex is a form of slavery. Well, it is if you look at women as full human beings that is. AND LET'S NOT FORGET THAT BOTH SLAVERY AND THE MOVEMENT FOR MANDATORY MOTHERHOOD ARE DEFENDED BY CHRISTIANS BECAUSE "THE BIBLE SAYS SO." Even though Jesus never mentioned abortion- you'd think he would if it was so important.
LOL-you condemn me for bringing up slavery, then run straight to the 'pregnancy is slavery' rhetoric. Slavery is a valid comparison to prochoice because slavetakers beleived blacks were less than human, just as Hitler believed Jews were less than human, just as you believe preborn babies are less than human. Simple enough for you? Typical feminist-whip out the victim card and the 'forced motherhood' b.s.-no one's forcing you to get laid, you wilting hothouse flower. That's what I hate most about feminism-the way it reduces women to victims with the mentality of spoiled four year olds. As for Israel, I think my 'spew' would go over pretty well-sounds like they were smart enough to outlaw abortion, knowing firsthand the dangers of genocide. You never answered my question, Jackie-how do you think those perishing in concentration camps would have felt knowing one in four babies would be killed by choice only a few short decades later?As for assuming I'm Christian-Jesus had plenty to say about the spilling of innocent blood-there are hundreds of scriptures in both OT and NT about the spilling of innocent blood-search them out for yourself. The last words of Christ to His disciples were to love one another as He had loved them-perhaps you'd like to define what is 'loving' about destroying the entire lifetime of another, since none of your comrades has been able to do so yet. Yes, we Christians are so evil, expecting grown women to act like grown women, shame on us...LOL. Incidentally, Jackie, Jesus never said anything about serial killing or rape either, are those ok with you too?
"Slavery is a valid comparison to prochoice because slavetakers beleived blacks were less than human, just as Hitler believed Jews were less than human, just as you believe preborn babies are less than human. Simple enough for you?" Thing is, subjugating women to sustained psychological and emotional abuse, bodily risk, and physical labor on the basis of the intrinsic characteristic of their being women is pretty much a proximate fucking opposite, in concept if not in scope, of freeing people who had been enslaved on the basis of the intrinsic characteristic of their being black." Typical feminist-whip out the victim card and the 'forced motherhood' b.s.-no one's forcing you to get laid,"Acknowledging a possible outcome (pregnancy) or risk is not consent to a specific outcome. Sex is not a contract for pregnancy. Here are some examples:Driving a car also requires consenting to run the risk of a car accident, it doesn’t require consenting to a car accident. And when an accident occurs, both the perpetrator and the victim are allowed to mitigate the damages of the risk by calling 911 and seeking emergency care. Sexual contact means there is a possibility that an STI could be contracted, and by engaging in said contact you are running the risk of infection. However, when you end up with an STI you, once again, are allowed to mitigate the damage with medical treatment and in some instances with a lawsuit.If your argument is that pregnancy is “natural” and therefore should be allowed to continue unabated by medical intervention, than you must also concede that all other naturally occurring phenomena, including illness, must also be allowed to run their course without treatment. If not, than your initial premise in regards to abortion is misogynist and only seeks to unequally render the health and bodily integrity of people capable of getting pregnant meaningless not the population as a whole.Abortion is not illegal in Israel. "Jackie-how do you think those perishing in concentration camps would have felt knowing one in four babies would be killed by choice only a few short decades later?"To compare the death of millions of Jews to abortion is an insult to their memory. Suggesting that the only instance of anti-semitism occurred during the Holocaust ignores the thousands of years of exile, diaspora, and systemic oppression Jewish people have survived. A vast majority of anti-choicers are Christian and the idea that they appropriate the Holocaust, an atrocity that accumulated after centuries of Christian prosecution, to promote their misogyny disgusts me. So, I don't know what they would think--I'm just the Jew. As a Christian who seems to think you can speak for them, why don't you tell me. "Incidentally, Jackie, Jesus never said anything about serial killing or rape either, are those ok with you too?"No, the bible actually condones abortion....LOL"Yes, we Christians are so evil, expecting grown women to act like grown women, shame on us...LOL"Yes and us Jews are so stupid to look at women as human beings capable of controling are own lives. As Rabbi Moses Sofer said, “No woman is required to build up the world by destroying herself.”I have to be honest and tell you that I find your condescending attitude towards my beliefs and religion repulsive.
I MEANT- The bible condones rape. Which to me really puts a dent in the "only people who are religious are moral" argument but thats a separate issue.
Jackie - I'm not jumping in this debate, but I want to ask you to review this. Does this website convey traditional Jewish belief on abortion? http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm
The Anti Abortion GangIt is not up to a anyone, including a Christian person, to decide whether my Jewish identity is valid. I’m entitled to my opinion regardless of whether I am a Hasidic Jew or completely secular.So, I’m calling all you two out. Comparing abortion to the Holocaust and reproductive justice advocates to Hitler is antisemitic. Quit co-opting my culture, and quit pretending you can speak for me. Also quit posting a bullshit website to try to imply that my Judaism is not the "real" Judaism.
Jackie - Obviously, I am not Jewish. I asked your opinion on the website, because you are Jewish. Your angry defensive response tells me that your beliefs are far from traditional. Much like Christians who have made up their own rules, to suit their lifestyle.
LOL Jackie-you seem to have no problem forcing your views on others as the resident troll here-as for your opinion of my attitude, I really don't give a shit-I don't need the validation and attagirls of feminists to bolster my self worth. Again you managed to read from the feminist script: pregnancy is a deadly disease (but hey, what would I know about pregnancy and birth-I'm just a midwife) and stepping up to be responsible is servitude, consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy etc-victim feminist much? Quit dodging the question-how do you think those perishing in concentration camps would have felt knowing the systematic killing of others based on perceptions of their humanity/personhood was made legal? Talk about an insult to their memory. You really are the stereotype of a feminist, shrieking for your rights to kill, playing the faux caring for women card as you seek to silence other women. I'd like an answer to my question, but I expect you'll continue to deflect and cling to feminist dogma instead of actually thinking for yourself.
No real response to my well thought out rebuttal, just angry spew. But that really all you have. "Quit dodging the question-how do you think those perishing in concentration camps would have felt knowing the systematic killing of others based on perceptions of their humanity/personhood was made legal? "Considering that a fetus is not a person, your question is invalid. However, about 88% of American Jews are prochoice.
So, Jackie, if you'd lost your daughter at 4 months gestation you'd have told your family your 'lump of cells' died? You wouldn't have mourned her as a human being and a person? Really?
Jackie - I'd like to know that as well. What would you say to your family?