Well he did have a cousin who died from an illegal abortion in 63. But because he has to placate the antiabortion extremist (a misnomer I know) but is a Republican otherwise he has to flip-flop. You know, to appease the misogynist, Christian-wing of the party.
She was the sister of Romney's brother in law. Not what I would call a 'close' relative. What she was in Romney's campaign vs Kennendy, was a pawn. He used her death in an attempt to gain liberal votes in MA. Don't you get it? No matter which side you're on, Romney is a turn-coat.
Oh so if she wasn't a "close" relative I suppose her death due to antichoice laws is a-o-kay? Please.
And I do get it but I wouldn't vote for Romney anyway so I really couldn't give a rat's a**. I don't vote for the political party that's been highjacked by religious-right extremists.
But your beef is (as well as your antichoice brigade) is that he's not married to the idea that women are walking uteri who's job (if they engage in the horrible sex act) is mandatory pregnancy and childbirth.
Her death was not due to pro-life laws. Her death was due to her having an abortion.
The party wasn't hi-jacked, we've always been religious..
No, my beef with him is that he is a flip-flopper.. He will not make banning abortion a priorty. He will not make saving the lives of fetal human beings, a priorty.
Illegal or not, the decision was HERS. Her choice! She had control over when to have sex, and possibly get pregnant. The 'child' has already been conceived and has started to develop, when SHE decides she doesn't want to be pregnant.
It is a human right for a woman to have the right to decide what she does with her own body including medical decisions. Having sex does not mean consent to pregnancy. We've had this discussion before.
You people profess that this is all about valuing life yet extend no empathy for this young woman. Antichoicers also like to say that women are aborting future scientists who could cure cancer or the first female president, yet that thought process never extends to women like Romney’s relative, the 400,000 starving children in Somalia or the 30% of children in the US living in poverty right now. As a matter of fact, in regards to the American children, you fight to eliminate federal programs that help these children and their mothers. On this blog alone, you've stated your dislike of such programs. So its really about controlling women's sex life and less about this love of life you always speak of.
Jackie - Who told you killing a human fetus is a human right? A human right should never include the right to kill an innocent human.
"Having sex does not mean consent to pregnancy." Actually, that's exactly what it means. You see, you and other pro-aborts have it backward. You put your sexual satisfaction first, and look at the fetus as a cruel side effect. Sex is for.. procreation. The sexual satisfaction you feel, is an added benefit.
Empathy? She was in college and had sex, knowing full well she could get pregnant. She did, and opted for an abortion. All of these were her choices. Do I have empathy for her? Of course. If she would have 'chosen' to carry to term, she would still be here, and so would her baby.
"you fight to eliminate federal programs that help these children and their mothers." Where have I ever stated that? We should all be fighting FOR funding to help mothers keep their babies, and be able to feed and clothe them.
"So its really about controlling women's sex life and less about this love of life you always speak of." That is straight from the pro-choice group think-tank, just like several other of your claims. Pro-lifers don't want to control your sex life, we want you to do it.
"You put your sexual satisfaction first, and look at the fetus as a cruel side effect."
Then I would expect that same type of attitude directed towards any medical condition. Fat and ate too many ding-dongs and M&Ms, well not diabetes meds for you. That'll teach ya! Driving a motorcycle without a helmet, no emergency OR for you. Ya should've known better...
"Of course. If she would have 'chosen' to carry to term, she would still be here, and so would her baby. "
You people trivialize the risk associated with pregnancy and childbirth. ITs not a walk in the park. And she could still be dead. Although death from a LEGAL abortion is very rare.........unlike childbirth.
Jackie - Get real please. An obese person pigging out on ding-dongs is risking their own health. If she is also pregnant, she is also risking the health of her baby. Either way, they get the care they need to treat the problem.
If a motorcyle rider opts out on the helmet, he is risking his own life. I've yet to hear of one that was denied an OR visit. Should helmets be mandatory? Nope..
Maternal mortality, though higher than it should be, is still rare at 13.3 deaths per 100,000 women in the US.
Get Real? You're talking about deny someone medical care based off of your Christian belief that abortion is wrong. If we chose your road, I would expect that belief to be extended to other people who's lifestyle choices someone may find repulsive or wrong. Another thing, a woman and a fetus are not equal. The woman's rights trump the fetus. I know not to you, but to people who respect women as human beings, like most ob/gyns for example, do.
Maternal mortality rate in the US is #50 on the World Health Organization's list. It is now safer to have a baby in Romania than in the United STates.
Bottom line is a woman's choice should be left up to her. You wanna save lives go to Somalia.
One doesn't have to be a Christian to figure out that abortion ends the life of a developing human being. How can that be right? Again, lifestyle choices that involve hurting another human being, such as a fetus, is where the problem is. Choices such as obesity, or doing drugs, hurt only the persons who choose that lifestyle.
"a woman and a fetus are not equal".. it's not a competition Jackie. Showing you're superiority toward a defenselss human fetus, doesn't gain 'respect' for women.
Admittedly, the maternal mortality rate in the US should be a lot lower. I personally think it's because women wait until later in life, say the 30's, to have a baby. Also, women are rushed through L&D like cattle, rather than letting nature take it's course slowly. Also, the C-Section rate must play heavily on the MMR, even more so than women waiting.. I would think it does anyway.
When a woman's 'choice' includes the choice to legally kill a human fetus, someone needs to intervene. Pro-life is doing that.
"Choices such as obesity, or doing drugs, hurt only the persons who choose that lifestyle."
Not necessarily, if that obese person is the sole provider of a family, the whole family suffers. Plus, insurance premiums are affected as well for thousands of people when such illnesses are on the rise. Same thing with drug use, it affects the whole family.
"When a woman's 'choice' includes the choice to legally kill a human fetus, someone needs to intervene. Pro-life is doing that."
So as you're intervening, please tell me...
How much prison time will a woman do for obtaining an illegal abortion? How does the regulations work? Vagina inspectors, like in El Salvador, will search every women who comes in with a miscarriage?
WIll women be inspected upon returning from a country where abortion is legal to make sure (as the rich surely will do) she didn't obtain one there?
Will women be forced to have drug and alcohol tests throughout her pregnancy to ensure she's a proper vessel? Whats the punishment if she's not a proper vessel?
Will women have a mandatory month inspection to see if she's pregnant?
Do tell how you will completely dehumanize women for the mere act of having sex?
yup, you can't answer the tough questions. Probably because you know the majority of Americans would be uncomfortable with the answers. However, these are relevant questions, because they pertain to the "pro-life" world view.
Sure I can Jackie.. on MY time. Unlike 'professional' bloggers (yeah I know, no such thing), I have a job (I'm blessed), and other responsibilities.
"if that obese person is the sole provider of a family, the whole family suffers. Plus, insurance premiums are affected as well for thousands of people when such illnesses are on the rise. Same thing with drug use, it affects the whole family."
Don't nit-pick, you know what I meant. Abortion kills a fetus. A person being obese does not kill the person sitting next to them. Yes, everyone involved is affected, but no one is killed. I have yet to see a perfect family. Have you?
"How much prison time will a woman do for obtaining an illegal abortion?" - 5 years
"How does the regulations work? Vagina inspectors, like in El Salvador, will search every women who comes in with a miscarriage?" - Nope
"WIll women be inspected upon returning from a country where abortion is legal to make sure (as the rich surely will do) she didn't obtain one there?" - Nope
"Will women be forced to have drug and alcohol tests throughout her pregnancy to ensure she's a proper vessel? Whats the punishment if she's not a proper vessel?" Nope, N/A
"Will women have a mandatory month inspection to see if she's pregnant?" Nope
"Do tell how you will completely dehumanize women for the mere act of having sex?" - It doesn't.
Do you realize how ridiculous your questions are?
This is how I see it playing out. Abortion will be made illegal. Women will be more careful about preventing a pregnancy that they don't want. If she happens to get pregnant anyway, she will more than likely continue to term, and have a healthy newborn. If she chooses to terminate illegally, it will most likely be done by a doctor, as it was before Roe. Will doctors still perform abortions? Of course! They're in it for the money. When word gets out that any certain doctor is performing abortions, that doctor will be charged with performing illegal abortions. No one is going to chase women down. If the woman attemts the abortion herself, and injures herself enough to require medical help, that doctor/nurse will be required by law to report that abortion attempt. The woman would then be charged, because she is the one who performed the abortion.
At some point, a culture of 'life' will over-ride the 'all-about-me' chant of pro-choicers. Abortion will become unthinkable for most Americans.
"Do you realize how ridiculous your questions are? "
They are not ridiculous, these things go on in countries where abortion is illegal. You have to paint them as ridiculous because if more people knew what an infringement on their personal lives pro-life policies would have on them, they wouldn't tolerate you people for a moment.
Well he did have a cousin who died from an illegal abortion in 63. But because he has to placate the antiabortion extremist (a misnomer I know) but is a Republican otherwise he has to flip-flop. You know, to appease the misogynist, Christian-wing of the party.
ReplyDeleteThat's a cheap shot at Christians Jackie, but expected from the left.
ReplyDeleteYet Romney's experience for the repercussions of your world view is ignored. Guess it has to be.
ReplyDeleteHere's the info for people who value women's lives:
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/08/08/mitt_romney_abortion_ann_keenan
She was the sister of Romney's brother in law. Not what I would call a 'close' relative. What she was in Romney's campaign vs Kennendy, was a pawn. He used her death in an attempt to gain liberal votes in MA. Don't you get it? No matter which side you're on, Romney is a turn-coat.
ReplyDeleteOh so if she wasn't a "close" relative I suppose her death due to antichoice laws is a-o-kay? Please.
ReplyDeleteAnd I do get it but I wouldn't vote for Romney anyway so I really couldn't give a rat's a**. I don't vote for the political party that's been highjacked by religious-right extremists.
But your beef is (as well as your antichoice brigade) is that he's not married to the idea that women are walking uteri who's job (if they engage in the horrible sex act) is mandatory pregnancy and childbirth.
Her death was not due to pro-life laws. Her death was due to her having an abortion.
ReplyDeleteThe party wasn't hi-jacked, we've always been religious..
No, my beef with him is that he is a flip-flopper.. He will not make banning abortion a priorty. He will not make saving the lives of fetal human beings, a priorty.
She dies from an illegal abortion (the pro-life utopia) because she was not valued in society to have control over if/when she produced a child.
ReplyDeleteIllegal or not, the decision was HERS. Her choice! She had control over when to have sex, and possibly get pregnant. The 'child' has already been conceived and has started to develop, when SHE decides she doesn't want to be pregnant.
ReplyDeleteIt is a human right for a woman to have the right to decide what she does with her own body including medical decisions. Having sex does not mean consent to pregnancy. We've had this discussion before.
ReplyDeleteYou people profess that this is all about valuing life yet extend no empathy for this young woman. Antichoicers also like to say that women are aborting future scientists who could cure cancer or the first female president, yet that thought process never extends to women like Romney’s relative, the 400,000 starving children in Somalia or the 30% of children in the US living in poverty right now. As a matter of fact, in regards to the American children, you fight to eliminate federal programs that help these children and their mothers. On this blog alone, you've stated your dislike of such programs. So its really about controlling women's sex life and less about this love of life you always speak of.
ReplyDeleteJackie - Who told you killing a human fetus is a human right? A human right should never include the right to kill an innocent human.
ReplyDelete"Having sex does not mean consent to pregnancy." Actually, that's exactly what it means. You see, you and other pro-aborts have it backward. You put your sexual satisfaction first, and look at the fetus as a cruel side effect. Sex is for.. procreation. The sexual satisfaction you feel, is an added benefit.
Empathy? She was in college and had sex, knowing full well she could get pregnant. She did, and opted for an abortion. All of these were her choices. Do I have empathy for her? Of course. If she would have 'chosen' to carry to term, she would still be here, and so would her baby.
"you fight to eliminate federal programs that help these children and their mothers." Where have I ever stated that? We should all be fighting FOR funding to help mothers keep their babies, and be able to feed and clothe them.
"So its really about controlling women's sex life and less about this love of life you always speak of." That is straight from the pro-choice group think-tank, just like several other of your claims. Pro-lifers don't want to control your sex life, we want you to do it.
"You put your sexual satisfaction first, and look at the fetus as a cruel side effect."
ReplyDeleteThen I would expect that same type of attitude directed towards any medical condition. Fat and ate too many ding-dongs and M&Ms, well not diabetes meds for you. That'll teach ya! Driving a motorcycle without a helmet, no emergency OR for you. Ya should've known better...
"Of course. If she would have 'chosen' to carry to term, she would still be here, and so would her baby. "
You people trivialize the risk associated with pregnancy and childbirth. ITs not a walk in the park. And she could still be dead. Although death from a LEGAL abortion is very rare.........unlike childbirth.
Jackie - Get real please. An obese person pigging out on ding-dongs is risking their own health. If she is also pregnant, she is also risking the health of her baby. Either way, they get the care they need to treat the problem.
ReplyDeleteIf a motorcyle rider opts out on the helmet, he is risking his own life. I've yet to hear of one that was denied an OR visit. Should helmets be mandatory? Nope..
Maternal mortality, though higher than it should be, is still rare at 13.3 deaths per 100,000 women in the US.
Get Real? You're talking about deny someone medical care based off of your Christian belief that abortion is wrong. If we chose your road, I would expect that belief to be extended to other people who's lifestyle choices someone may find repulsive or wrong. Another thing, a woman and a fetus are not equal. The woman's rights trump the fetus. I know not to you, but to people who respect women as human beings, like most ob/gyns for example, do.
ReplyDeleteMaternal mortality rate in the US is #50 on the World Health Organization's list. It is now safer to have a baby in Romania than in the United STates.
Bottom line is a woman's choice should be left up to her. You wanna save lives go to Somalia.
One doesn't have to be a Christian to figure out that abortion ends the life of a developing human being. How can that be right? Again, lifestyle choices that involve hurting another human being, such as a fetus, is where the problem is. Choices such as obesity, or doing drugs, hurt only the persons who choose that lifestyle.
ReplyDelete"a woman and a fetus are not equal".. it's not a competition Jackie. Showing you're superiority toward a defenselss human fetus, doesn't gain 'respect' for women.
Admittedly, the maternal mortality rate in the US should be a lot lower. I personally think it's because women wait until later in life, say the 30's, to have a baby. Also, women are rushed through L&D like cattle, rather than letting nature take it's course slowly. Also, the C-Section rate must play heavily on the MMR, even more so than women waiting.. I would think it does anyway.
When a woman's 'choice' includes the choice to legally kill a human fetus, someone needs to intervene. Pro-life is doing that.
"Choices such as obesity, or doing drugs, hurt only the persons who choose that lifestyle."
ReplyDeleteNot necessarily, if that obese person is the sole provider of a family, the whole family suffers. Plus, insurance premiums are affected as well for thousands of people when such illnesses are on the rise. Same thing with drug use, it affects the whole family.
"When a woman's 'choice' includes the choice to legally kill a human fetus, someone needs to intervene. Pro-life is doing that."
So as you're intervening, please tell me...
How much prison time will a woman do for obtaining an illegal abortion?
How does the regulations work? Vagina inspectors, like in El Salvador, will search every women who comes in with a miscarriage?
WIll women be inspected upon returning from a country where abortion is legal to make sure (as the rich surely will do) she didn't obtain one there?
Will women be forced to have drug and alcohol tests throughout her pregnancy to ensure she's a proper vessel? Whats the punishment if she's not a proper vessel?
Will women have a mandatory month inspection to see if she's pregnant?
Do tell how you will completely dehumanize women for the mere act of having sex?
yup, you can't answer the tough questions. Probably because you know the majority of Americans would be uncomfortable with the answers. However, these are relevant questions, because they pertain to the "pro-life" world view.
ReplyDeleteSure I can Jackie.. on MY time. Unlike 'professional' bloggers (yeah I know, no such thing), I have a job (I'm blessed), and other responsibilities.
ReplyDelete"if that obese person is the sole provider of a family, the whole family suffers. Plus, insurance premiums are affected as well for thousands of people when such illnesses are on the rise. Same thing with drug use, it affects the whole family."
Don't nit-pick, you know what I meant. Abortion kills a fetus. A person being obese does not kill the person sitting next to them. Yes, everyone involved is affected, but no one is killed. I have yet to see a perfect family. Have you?
"How much prison time will a woman do for obtaining an illegal abortion?" - 5 years
"How does the regulations work? Vagina inspectors, like in El Salvador, will search every women who comes in with a miscarriage?" - Nope
"WIll women be inspected upon returning from a country where abortion is legal to make sure (as the rich surely will do) she didn't obtain one there?" - Nope
"Will women be forced to have drug and alcohol tests throughout her pregnancy to ensure she's a proper vessel? Whats the punishment if she's not a proper vessel?" Nope, N/A
"Will women have a mandatory month inspection to see if she's pregnant?" Nope
"Do tell how you will completely dehumanize women for the mere act of having sex?" - It doesn't.
Do you realize how ridiculous your questions are?
This is how I see it playing out. Abortion will be made illegal. Women will be more careful about preventing a pregnancy that they don't want. If she happens to get pregnant anyway, she will more than likely continue to term, and have a healthy newborn. If she chooses to terminate illegally, it will most likely be done by a doctor, as it was before Roe. Will doctors still perform abortions? Of course! They're in it for the money. When word gets out that any certain doctor is performing abortions, that doctor will be charged with performing illegal abortions. No one is going to chase women down. If the woman attemts the abortion herself, and injures herself enough to require medical help, that doctor/nurse will be required by law to report that abortion attempt. The woman would then be charged, because she is the one who performed the abortion.
At some point, a culture of 'life' will over-ride the 'all-about-me' chant of pro-choicers. Abortion will become unthinkable for most Americans.
"Do you realize how ridiculous your questions are? "
ReplyDeleteThey are not ridiculous, these things go on in countries where abortion is illegal. You have to paint them as ridiculous because if more people knew what an infringement on their personal lives pro-life policies would have on them, they wouldn't tolerate you people for a moment.