I just read this post on the Thought Catalog blog, "What It's Really Like To Have An Abortion". It's what I would think is a typical abortion scenario.
Girl goes to college, feeling free for the first time in her life, has sex, gets pregnant. Now what? Well, if you're like a lot of other young college age women, you think about how this pregnancy affects you, no one else, just you.
Every month since you started having sex you have rejoiced the monthly inconvenience of your period and watched TV shows about teenagers getting pregnant, thinking to yourself “at least it’s not me.” It’s you now.
Taking the test is like preparing for a funeral. Everyone always tells you that sex changes things, that it’s the death of your innocence and you can never take it back. Sitting there staring at that pee-soaked stick, you know they were lying to you. This is the loss of that innocence. You feel damaged, dirty, nauseated. Nothing will ever be the same after those lines appear.
You blame the loss of your innocence on the two little lines on the pregnancy test stick. It was nothing you did, you're not responsible for anything. You had sex and it felt good. It was the pregnancy that damaged you, not the sex. It wasn't your fault.
You don't concern yourself with the new human being you took part in creating. You don't concern yourself about the father of the baby.
The person sitting beside you—your significant other—is already crying. They are religious. They think this is a baby.
While waiting for your turn at the abortion clinic...
Your significant other will turn to you, while you are sick and shaking and scared as hell in that waiting room, and they will say to you, “Let’s just keep it.”
But you won't. You can't! After all, it's not about them, it's all about you. You can go back to your life. You won't have to share your life with your child, you took care of that at the abortion clinic. And you will probably lose your boyfriend, he will never get over the loss of his child. Yeah, it's just you now.
Any man who has sex with a pro-choice woman is complicit in the death of his child.
ReplyDeleteIt's got to be awful to go through, but his sin is a big part of why that baby died.
You bring up a good point YCW. Men should always take their share of the responsibility, no matter the outcome. A pro-choice woman is much more likely to abort than a pro-life woman in a situation such as this. And there are so many pro-life women out there, why risk the like of your child by having sex with someone who is pro-choice?
ReplyDeleteWhy have sex outside of the relationship that God intended to provide for children, actually. But if he marries a pro-choice woman, there's no guarantee. She might decide to abort because they have enough (and might not even tell him). She might decide she doesn't want to carry his daughter with Down Syndrome to term. I think men are capable of self-control. I think a man who has sex with a pro-choice woman and calls himself pro-life needs a reality check. I think a man who calls himself a Christian and is marrying a pro-choicer or sleeping around before marrying does too.
ReplyDeleteI agree, you should wait to have sex with your husband/wife. Both men and women are capable of self-control, but with the pro-sex culture, they see no reason to exercise it.
ReplyDeleteHey Anti Abortion Gang!
ReplyDeleteJill Stanek has been unable to find contact information for you and would like you to contact her at her email address: jill (at) jillstanek.com.
Thanks! :)
"The person sitting beside you—your significant other—is already crying. They are religious. They think this is a baby. Your significant other will turn to you, while you are sick and shaking and scared as hell in that waiting room, and they will say to you, “Let’s just keep it.”
ReplyDeleteIs this a true story or just a hypothetical? If it's the latter, please stop promoting the myth of all the virtuous, upstanding men out there who just can't wait to be daddies, if it weren't for the evil slut who wants to kill it so she can keep getting drunk and going to lesbian orgies. It's one of the misogynist's favorite pieces of propaganda: men are good and women are evil. Actually, in real life--and you can ask any abortion clinic worker or CPC volunteer--many women consider or have abortions under intense pressure from the guy who has no desire to be a father. Polls repeatedly show that men support abortion much more than women (especially young men). Of the people I know who have aborted a pregnancy, most of them didn't have a boyfriend sitting there weeping and begging her to keep it. More likely, they were driving her to the clinic and applying relentless pressure to go in (I've seen incredibly tense conversations in clinic parking lots where it's obvious the guy is badgering her.) Or they weren't around at all, since they were more interested in drinking and lap-dancing with girls than in supporting the woman they impregnated.
My all-time favorite misogynist laws (which thankfully never get through) are those laws that force women to get the father's permission before aborting. (You should never have to seek some guy's permission to legally do anything. What is this, Iran?) Pro-lifers obviously think those awesome men are all going to "save the babies" from the whores who want to "kill babies." If they didn't think it worked, they wouldn't propose it. Men are good daddies and women are a threat to their children, right? Instead, I expect their anti-woman worldview to be busted when a bunch of guys eagerly sign on the dotted line and take off with the next woman.
I won't even get into the anti-sex league showing up here to argue that if they could just stop having sex until they're sold off to some guy, abortion would disappear. Okay, then why are 20% of abortion patients married? Why do 75% of single pregnant women NOT abort? I got pregnant out-of-wedlock (by a guy I'd been with for two months) and I kept it--against my entire family's wishes. I've since done that whole Holy Sacrament of marriage thing, too. Imagine that.
Ashley -
ReplyDelete"Is this a true story or just a hypothetical?" I linked to the article. Please read it and judge for yourself.
"if it weren't for the evil slut"
"men are good and women are evil"
"save the babies" from the whores"
" Men are good daddies and women are a threat to their children"
"stop having sex until they're sold off to some guy"
WTG on the propaganda. Do you realize that things you say, are believed by vulnerable young women, and men? You seem to have it in your head that we think women are evil? I assure you we don't.
Thank you for bringing up the prevalence of coerced abortion. We realize this is a big problem. What do you, or other clinic workers, do to help the women who don't want to abort?
Also, I get the impression from you that women know the men they sleep with are cads. Why sleep with them then? Is it really worth it?
So, let me get this right. All I have to do is keep my legs crossed till I get married, and hey presto, getting pregnant is no longer an issue because my husband will stand by me, come hell or high water, and all my finances will be in order. (Didn't the statistics you quoted in an article here say that at least 45% of abortions is by married women? Just don't have sex then I guess if you can't afford to get pregnant.)
ReplyDeleteYep, just ban abortion, and ban sex before marriage (especially for women), and all will be well in this blessed land. And any hussy that does get pregnant, and who does not want to keep the baby for whatever reason, well, just force her to continue with pregnancy, and put the baby up for adoption. After all, there are thousands of couples who are dying to adopt babies. And tell the hussy that one sin (wanting an abortion) will be cancelled out by her giving the baby up for adoption.
Now what to do with women who get abortions, and doctors who perform them? I say have stiff penalties for both (let's not have this popycock nonsense about having love and understanding for the women, as they know exactly what they are doing).
Problem solved.
Athena -
ReplyDelete"All I have to do is keep my legs crossed till I get married, and hey presto, getting pregnant is no longer an issue" - True
Actually, the statistics say "Women who have never married and are not cohabiting account for 45% of all abortions", which means that 55% of women who have abortions have at some point been married, or have at least cohabited. That statistic is quoted in this post http://theantiabortiongang.blogspot.com/2011/10/it-true-hormonal-birth-control-can.html, and the source is linked there as well.
Now. You seem to think you know what's in the minds of pro-lifers. I assure you, you don't. Our view, as you know, is that life begins at fertilization. Do you disagree?
Another statistic from the same source "Fifty-four percent of women who have abortions had used a contraceptive method (usually the condom or the pill) during the month they became pregnant. Among those women, 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users report having used their method inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users report correct use." What this means is that most pregnancies that end in abortion, are caused by negligence and irresponsibility. Going back to 'life begins at fertilization', is it too much to ask that women (and men) take proper precautions to prevent the embryo from ever coming in to being in the first place?
"Now what to do with women who get abortions, and doctors who perform them? I say have stiff penalties for both (let's not have this popycock nonsense about having love and understanding for the women, as they know exactly what they are doing)" Shall we also say this about women who drown their newborns? At some point, you must hold people responsible for their actions. When is pro-choice as a whole, going to do that?
If life does begin at fertilization (I guess almost all women have, by medical definition, undergone abortions then), then you should be in favor of banning the birth control pills (plus a couple of others if I am not mistaken). Which leaves only abstinence, condoms and sterilization the options available if one wants to avoid pregnancy. But of these, condoms are not absolutely fool proof are they? But nothing in life is. We deal the best we can when life deals us with a blow (and yes, pregnancy is not always greeted with joy, dear, for a myriad of reasons).
ReplyDeleteSo, I guess your answer, when it comes to avoiding pregnancy, is either abstinence or sterilization, even within a marriage.
What do the statistics tell us (and you just confirmed what I said anyway)? That the majority of the women who have abortions are not giddy teenagers, but rather are in a relationship. And that even within a marriage, pregnancy can pose a problem. And pray tell, what is in the mind of pro-lifers since I obviously have no clue?
Finally, I am serious when I talk about penalties for women when abortion is banned. Because I can never get a straight answer out of pro-lifers when I ask them what the penalty should be. If abortion is a crime, then the person who commits it should be punished. As for your example of women who drown their newborns, unless there is a mitigating circumstance (post partum depression), I don't see how or why they should get off scott-free. Unless of course you're subtly implying that they should be punished.
BTW - actually, what is really your point in the last para? Should we hold people responsible for their actions? Absolutely! Unless they are of diminished mental capacity. Or are you saying that somehow, once pregnant, women cannot be trusted to make their own decisions, especially when it concerns their pregnancies?
Again I ask - what should the penalty be, in the opinion of pro-lifers, for women when abortion is banned? And for starters what will you do to prevent women (those with the means anyway) from hopping over to Canada for abortions?
Athena -
ReplyDelete"If life does begin at fertilization" Of course it does! That is the only logical time it could begin!
"(I guess almost all women have, by medical definition, undergone abortions then), then you should be in favor of banning the birth control pills (plus a couple of others if I am not mistaken)" Let's keep it in context, shall we? This is about induced abortion. Not about the natural loss of fertilized eggs. I state in the post I linked to above, about my views on hormonal birth control, which would include 'the pill'.
Yes, the majority of women who abort are not giddy teenagers. They are grown women who should know better. They are grown women who fail to take proper precautions. They are grown women who have access to birth control, but fail to use it properly.
What pro-lifer's think (I can only speak for myself here)... is that feminists use abortion being legal as a way to combat unintended pregnancy, so they are free to have all the sex they want.. with NO consequences! We know life begins at fertilization, and every abortion results in the death of a human being. And knowing those things pisses us off. Millions of babies are killed every year simply because the mother (and father) wouldn't take responsibility for their child.
Penalties? Lets leave that up to legislators. If if was me, I'd say 5 years for the woman, and 20 for the doctor.. but that's just my opinion.
The last para... What i am saying is that even women who drown newborns are defended by pro-choicers. Where does that defense end? PPD is the excuse they use to get away with murder. Some cases are clinical PPD, just not all of them.
Life begins at fertilization because that is the only logical time it can begin? Seriously? Then why not have a “let’s remember the lives lost before implantation” day? I mean they must number in the billions, and it is a pity no one is giving a toss about them.
ReplyDeleteIf life does begin at fertilization, then why are you for birth control pills? Don’t all the lives lost not weigh heavily on your conscience (or piss you off)? What about, despite correct use of contraception, the woman falls pregnant? Oh, scratch that – in your book, hussies who cannot afford to get pregnant should not have sex, or better still, get sterilized.
And rape victims should not have the options of disrupting their pregnancy or even implantation if possible (don’t know your stance on Plan B, but assume it is a no like some pro-lifers I have spoken to). I mean, women who have abortions are simply those that are irresponsible. You know, the ones who want to party all night long, snort cocaine, and are saving for plastic surgery or that European trip with their lovers. Yes siree.
You say I do not know how pro-lifers think. But when pressed, you say you can only speak for yourself. Then seconds later, you lump all pro-choice folks together. Basically in your opinion, pro-lifers are a diverse bunch, but pro-choicers are zombies who all think alike. Love the way you think, and of course, your holier-than-thou attitude!
Re: penalties for women who procure abortions – thank you for your honesty. It then brings us to the next question – how would you distinguish induced abortions from natural abortions? Oooops ... I mean induced miscarriage from natural miscarriage? When a woman comes into a hospital with a miscarriage, how could you be sure the miscarriage was not induced? Would the woman be investigated? Subject to the second degree? Will you be forming a uterus police to that effect?
Regarding allowing abortion (or should it be induced miscarriage) for women whose life (but not health) is in danger (how magnanimous of you), how would you determine the danger faced by a woman? Is 30% risk of dying enough to allow for an abortion? 50%? 80% or higher? Or must she be literally bleeding like there’s no tomorrow before abortion is carried out? Then how about the fetal heartbeat? Will abortion be induced if fetal heartbeat is detected, but it cannot be viable outside the mother’s womb?
Women (and men) are responsible for their actions, unless there are some mitigating factors at play. But the thing is it is pro-lifers like yourself who deny the women the dignity of being allowed to make their own decisions. Your thinking is probably as follows:
“I, (insert your name here), think women should only be allowed to have a legal medical procedure performed if I approve of their reasons for doing so because I don't trust women to make their own informed decisions.” Period.
"Then why not have a “let’s remember the lives lost before implantation” day?" Do you realize how silly you sound?
ReplyDelete1. Is there anything that can be done to prevent naturally lost fertilized eggs? No
2. Is there anthing that can be done to prevent induced abortion? Yes
"If life does begin at fertilization, then why are you for birth control pills?"
I explain that in another post. http://theantiabortiongang.blogspot.com/2011/10/it-true-hormonal-birth-control-can.html
"What about, despite correct use of contraception, the woman falls pregnant?
What about it? Does the baby deserve to be killed because of that? Nope. Birth control is what? 98-99% effective? Yet 54% of post abortive women admit to not using it correctly. Women themselves could dramatically reduce the abortion rate by simply taking their bc when they're supposed to. Know why they don't? Because abortion is available legally, as back up bc.
On rape victims - it's not the baby's fault.
On Plan B - Can you prove that Plan B has prevented pregnancies? It's a rip-off, designed to give you peace of mind, while over-loading your body with artificial hormones. The big winner here is the pharmaceutical companies.
Are you a pro-choice feminist? I've talked to plenty, and they all think alike. How many pro-lifers have you talked to? My guess is, not many.
"how would you distinguish induced abortions from natural abortions?" Qualified doctors would be responsible for that.
Uterus police? See what I mean about fems? I've heard that countless times. It's silly rhetoric intended on scaring you, and sadly it worked.
Regarding a woman's risk. Again, only a qualified doctor could make that call. Doctor's go to med school because they want to help people. It is not in them to let a woman die without doing everything he/she can to save the woman.. including aborting the fetus.
"Will abortion be induced if fetal heartbeat is detected, but it cannot be viable outside the mother’s womb?" Yes. It's not always possible to save both.
Regarding 'legal medical procedure'. Not everything legal is right. Laws are written to protect human beings. Unborn babies are human beings.
Athena - Not trying to be ugly here, but it sounds like you've been spoon-fed pro-choice rhetoric, and now are scared out of your wits about abortion being banned. I would only ask that you do your own research. Read about it with an open mind, and think for yourself.
ReplyDeleteI realize this is long overdue, and is long ..... but still ....
ReplyDelete"Do you realize how silly you sound?"
Really, why is it silly when every fertilized egg is a life? Do you not mourn for life lost, no matter how it is lost? (scenario planning, baby, scenario planning ....)
"Is there anything that can be done to prevent naturally lost fertilized eggs? No."
Ah, but you can mitigate the risks correct? If you cause the loss of life, are you not investigated regardless of the circumstance? What is there to prevent the husband from brining charges against the wife? And what about the extra embryos created under IVF? The ones that are not considered “good” enough to be implanted in the woman?
Your support for BC pills - That you do not see the contradiction in your position is astounding, given your stand that life absolutely begins at fertilization. Guess some lives are worth more than others.
“On rape victims - it's not the baby's fault.”
Yep, force the victim to go through the pregnancy, never mind what she wants. Guess you have no problem giving visitation rights to the rapists (oops .. I mean father) too? What, rapists are denied parental rights? Oh I forget – in your world, every woman who is raped reports the crime to the authorities, and every rapist is successfully jailed. Guess you will soon enact the following – either the woman reports her rape to the police pronto, or the impregnator gets visitation rights automatically, no questions asked.
Indeed, you have spoken to so many (in fact all) pro-choicers that you could write a book. I mean since you label me a feminist in an accusatory manner, it seems you are definitely not a feminist i.e. you don’t believe in equal rights for all women (I guess only some women like yourself, assuming you are a woman, are entitled to vote because the rest of us are probably hysterical banshees ruled by our hormones), and certainly don’t believe women are capable of thinking and deciding for themselves.
"Uterus police? See what I mean about fems? I've heard that countless times. It's silly rhetoric intended on scaring you, and sadly it worked."
ReplyDeleteNo kidding (scenario planning is not your forte I see). Since a miscarriage equals a life lost, you don’t think it warrants an investigation? No? Guess the life was not valuable then.
Also, look at the statistics in countries that have banned abortions, where doctors are expected to report suspicious miscarriages. Do you really think the doctors turn all of them in? Are they 100% sure if a miscarriage is induced or natural? And of the women who were turned over and prosecuted, how many were poor? The rich are able to circumvent the law by going overseas, but not the poor. But do you even care?
"Regarding a woman's risk. Again, only a qualified doctor could make that call...."
Are you deliberately being obtuse? A doctor can never be 100% certain (unlike you apparently). They can only give you the probability. And often times the decision is left to the woman. I mean for ectopic pregnancies, I have been told by some Catholics that sometimes the problem resolves itself, and therefore it is better to wait, and avoid killing a life deliberately. After all, every life is sacred.
In your case, one has to be at death’s door before abortion is allowed.
"It's not always possible to save both."
Really? So, why do some Catholic hospitals wait until the foetal heartbeat is no longer detectable before proceeding to work on the woman (remember they work on the same premise as you do – that human life begins at fertilization?)
"Regarding 'legal medical procedure'. Not everything legal is right. Laws are written to protect human beings. Unborn babies are human beings."
Please do provide a list of how these human beings can be protected from the moment of fertilization, besides banning abortion I mean. Since everything comes with a manual these days, surely it behooves you to come up with one to ensure that the just formed human life which is voiceless and defenseless and invisible to boot, is protected at all costs.
"...but it sounds like you've been spoon-fed pro-choice rhetoric, and now are scared out of your wits about abortion being banned. I would only ask that you do your own research. Read about it with an open mind, and think for yourself."
ReplyDeleteSo, you know a lot about me how? Oh, that's right, the fact that you being "pro-life" accords you the birth right to know everything there is to know about someone who "pro-choice". My bad. But in a way you are right – pro-choice people (regardless of their personal feelings) are united in their stance that the ultimate decision maker is the woman, and she should not be coerced into making a decision - a point which you obviously fail spectacularly to appreciate.
Yes, honeybuns, I am "scared out of my wits about abortion being banned". And I am "unable to think for myself" because, unlike you or other worldly "pro-lifers", I have been "spoon-fed pro-choice rhetoric" and have not deployed any critical analysis. I am (just like any woman who is pro-choice) just a stupid, ignorant woman in your books.
Indeed, I am peeing in my pants right now. Oh dear, please oh wise one, won't you help me?
Oh, to live on a pedestal, consumed by one’s ego and divorced from reality ......
Athena - "Really, why is it silly when every fertilized egg is a life? Do you not mourn for life lost, no matter how it is lost?" We mourn those deaths we are aware of.
ReplyDelete"Your support for BC pills - That you do not see the contradiction in your position is astounding" Not astounding, admitted. You see BC pills the same way you see abortion, as enabling you to have sex w/o consequences. I see BC pills as a revolution to women. BCP freed women so they were not impregnated every time their husband demanded sex, and so they were not forced to stay home and raise 10 kids.
"Yep, force the victim to go through the pregnancy, never mind what she wants. Guess you have no problem giving visitation rights to the rapists"
For you to suggest rapists deserve visitation rights is insane. Rapists deserve no less than to be locked up permanently for their inhumane crimes.
Lastly, critical thinking would tell you that human life indeed begins at conception, and innocent human life should be protected, at all costs.
"Since everything comes with a manual these days, surely it behooves you to come up with one to ensure that the just formed human life which is voiceless and defenseless and invisible to boot, is protected at all costs."
Voiceless? Defenseless? Invisible? Pro-lifers speak for the unborn. Yes they are defenseless, but we're trying to change that. Ultrasound has made the unborn visible.
I am not Catholic, so save your Catholic bashing.
"So, why do some Catholic hospitals wait until the foetal heartbeat is no longer detectable before proceeding to work on the woman" Cite it.
You Athena, are no different than other pro-choicers I've spoken with. Repeating the same arguments ad nauseum, while ignoring that indeed, abortion kills developing human beings, and you're ok with that.
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ReplyDeleteI am Catholic and I speak from personal experience.
ReplyDeleteYou are certainly good at evading questions. E.g. rape - how are you going to prove that rape occurred and thus deny paternal rights accordingly - take a woman's word for it? You? Really? All you care about is your opinion. Another e.g. IVF - well, I just love your silence.
BC pills - your generosity in protecting women from demanding husbands just moves me to tears. I guess the next step is to limit the prescription of BC pills to married women only. Then you can sleep soundly at night knowing that you have saved millions and millions of fertilized eggs of unmarried women from being "aborted". As for those of married women, well, them fertilized eggs are not worth thinking about. (Interesting you don't propose solutions for women with "demanding husbands" other than BC pills....i.e. your viewpoint: fulfill your spousal obligation ladies)
Again, your sweeping statement of pro-choicers show that you will never convince the majority of women to go with your "fertilized egg is a person" notion for starters. Not only because of your insistence that you are right, and everyone else is wrong, but more importantly because of your smug attitude and dismissal of everyone else's view points and concerns.